Lynne Jarman Johnson:
There's very different feelings when people feel served versus feeling sold to.
James Robert Lay:
Greetings and hello. I am James Robert Lay and welcome to another episode of the Banking On Digital Growth podcast. Today's episode is part of the digital growth journey series, and I'm excited to welcome Lynne Jarman Johnson to the show because she has really such a great story to tell. And I know a lot of applicable insights based upon what's all going on right now in the world. So Lynne, you're the chief marketing officer at Consumers Credit Union. Welcome. It's good to have you.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Thank you so much. So pleased to be here. It's nice to see the face.
James Robert Lay:
Yes. We're still connecting with other people.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
That's right.
James Robert Lay:
Even though we're all kind of all on lockdown it seems like. But it's good to have this human connection. It's good to have this human interaction. My question to start things off is what's one thing that you're excited about and maybe even hopeful in the midst of all of this coronavirus, COVID-19 chaos, confusion, and really just the whole crisis as it stands? What's good for you?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Thank you so much, Robert. I think one of the things I'm most hopeful about is that we're all one and we're all getting to become one here. All of a sudden when a crisis hits, there is no levels of who is more important. Now we try to see that in the media, right? It pushes it out for you, but anybody who works in marketing or in any type of a service industry understands that that level changes drastically when we all need the same things, which is health and safety and being able to wake up in the morning and serve others. And so I truly am hopeful that that stays with us. That the tools that we're learning to use right now, like we're doing a podcast that can reach so many people that when we continue to use technical tools technology, but then also truly inspire ourselves to touch people in different ways and to understand we're all in this together and really grow that journey together.
James Robert Lay:
You hit on something key and I want to pause and unpack this a little bit. You talked about the podcast that you're doing. You've got a jumpstart on this at Consumers. You've been down this path of content. And really what we're seeing content is rooted in communication. Communication is going to be the key in the weeks and months to come. Tell me a little bit about what you're doing with this podcast and how some of that programming might change. You and I were talking before, the programming for Banking On Digital Growth was thrown out the window, and we're literally kind of just flying by the seat of our pants to create value for other financial brands. But what are you doing with the podcast at Consumers currently in the weeks and months to come?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Well, podcasting is one of our tools for communication, and we like to say bank how you want when you want. And right now that has changed drastically just like you said. You said look at everything has been thrown out the window and where we may have been producing a podcast to talk about first-time home buyers in the biggest crunch of home buying at this time, that has gone to a different place right now. And we are very focused on helping people feel calm, helping our members feel calm, but also the community. And then most importantly, our business members that have mom and pop business shops. How can we be a resource that gives education and outreach in a time where people are shutting down because that's what people feel? You and I probably both feel that on a day-to-day basis. We're not seeing the people that we normally see. Are we making sure that when we're making those connections?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
So for us, it's intentionally asking that question. So the content then becomes servant oriented. How can we serve a member? And the podcast is a great example. We had been at CUES which is a Credit Union Executive Society conference, and some of the content is spot on because it's talking about banking differently. But right now our goal is to help really say, okay, the lobby may be closed in many businesses and in many banking institutions, but then how can you make sure that you have the confidence and trust to get your banking done? That has to be the first thing. How can we make sure that you feel comfortable?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And then the second is how can we help your neighbor? How can we help your business partner? If you have a business partner that is in any food industry right now, they are facing such drastic change in such a short amount of time. So, our goal is to be able to bring those resources to everybody, not only through the podcasts, but then through links after the podcast goes up on the web and then continuously helping it be a cross-communication. It can't be just, hey, let's push everything out. It also has to be we're listening, how can we help you?
James Robert Lay:
You've mentioned a couple of key points that I was taking some notes on. Your communication strategy is, if I was distill this down to three parts, is to provide clarity in this time of chaos. It's to provide calm amidst the confusion, and it's to provide hope in a time of crisis. So, in knowing your back story a little bit, I think you guys are positioned so well to do so much good for the people in the communities that you serve, the small businesses in the communities that you serve because of one thing. And that is the credit union, Consumers Credit Union is built upon something more than just profits, but you've put purpose at the heart of all of your thinking and doing. And I know that not every financial brand is like that. I know that not every credit union is like that. Not every community bank's like that. Can you talk about why purpose is maybe more important now than ever before?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
So, when everything started happening with COVID-19, there were two audiences that you thought of, actually three. And those audiences are the teammates that you work with alongside with every single day. The people that made you laugh, that know all about your faults and your weaknesses and also your strengths. And those that will come together in a time of crisis to make things happen great for the members. Members are then our second audience. Those who if they start to feel that fear, they're feeling the same fear you are, you're not any different than anybody else. What is the difference is that can you rely on the trust that you built up to up to now to make sure that we're all in this together and to say, "Hey, we're here for you," and together learn the steps that need to be taken.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And then the third community is community. It is those that are around that can help out that you never really realized could help out. Or, those that think, "You know what, maybe I need a different place to bank." Or, "I really do want to work at a credit union." Remember recruiting still has to go on. So all of the things that you are normally used to feels like they're totally paused. But then when you bring culture into it, that brings it back to where it all begins. And so for us, it is servant leadership. And in marketing that means serving all those communities I just talked about. But then the really cool part is just ask, how can I? Well we're not allowed to do that because boy, we're hearing that a lot. I read today. We're not allowed. "You're not allowed to go to this place. You're not allowed to touch cash."
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
How can we then say, well how can we? And together our team has always been centered around a culture that is hired on servant leadership. So immediately that will happen. And that comes from our CEO Kit Snyder all the way down. And every person that works with Consumers, they have that culture mentality too. So that part of it actually becomes easy. It's not easy to get there, right? It's always something you're working on. But once that happens and you're synergized on helping, it really turns the knob up to fuel that fire of bringing people assistance and helping them get out of a situation that maybe they were in that now just seems, oh, it's exasperated.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. You're speaking to some really practical elements here. One is the human condition. And what I'm seeing play out and our study... we've been studying human behavior digitally for almost two decades now. But, this is almost unprecedented because of the speed at which this is been thrown upon us. So you got the internal culture. You got your internal team. That's your one audience. You got your external culture, your members. And then you've got your communities, but two things.
James Robert Lay:
Fear of the unknown is probably driving us all a little crazy and fear of change, but then there's also been almost a period of loss. We're going to go through like almost a mourning, right? And when you look at what you guys have done, what you guys are doing, what you guys will do, how can you directly tap into the human condition to offer help and empathy digitally? Because there is no face-to-face right now. I can see you through Zoom, but I still can't get in that face-to-face human interaction environment.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
I love the fact that the very moment that all of this started to happen, the first questions that we asked are who are already [inaudible 00:10:49] that need help right away? And so when you stop and you ask those questions first, that puts the human element in it versus saying, "Oh, let me get a list of the following people I have to connect to." We've never been like that and we never will be. But the digital component of it that's difficult and where I think there's been some huge aha moments, is that we will offer for anyone who would like to go through the drive-thrus, the interactive teller, so you will be able to see a face. And just today we produced a video where our teller Katie said, I said, hey, we asked her what was the number one question that made you laugh? And she said, "Oh, someone asked me if I'm Alexa." And I say, "Hey, Katie," and all of a sudden you show up.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And so I think part of it is that human component of showing us in our real lives. We've got the majority of our workforce now is remote. We've got darling pictures of the dog, the pug dog that's helping a teller. Now imagine if you drive through a teller and when you touch the screen, wash your hands, of course, and then up pops up pug dog to say hello. That's stuff that most people would say, "Absolutely not. We cannot do that." And yet we're like, no, we are all in this and we just have to reach out to the way that connects to make you smile. If it does, if you're smiling, you can turn a frown upside down and you can at least help someone feel better in that crisis mode.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And the other component about that is the digital component of us working together. So, Zoom as an example or WebEx or whatever you use, don't be afraid. And I like to say, oh my gosh, I'm not ready for prime time. That means my makeup's not on. Don't be afraid at this juncture. If someone is calling you FaceTiming, take the FaceTime call. Be real and connect that way because otherwise I'm afraid texting will overwhelm. I've seen such fun Snapchats from people who are my work friends, and it makes me just crack up. And that's what life's about.
James Robert Lay:
It is the human element, it is the human condition that I want financial brands to be mindful of because if we lean too far into digital, because there's really two sides of the equation. It's the digital experience plus the human experience. It's not one or the other. It's both working in conjuncture to create value because in a time of crisis, Siri, Alexa, they're not going to be the ones that are helping you at this moment. It's going to be real life flesh and blood, and we're using digital technology to bring two human beings together for good.
James Robert Lay:
I love your example of Zoom. It's been a recommendation that I've been making is let's spin up Zoom. If people are locked down, even if it's for lack of a better word, a financial therapy session, just to give someone an ear to talk to. Just to give them somewhere they can get something off their chest. When you're looking at everything going on now, the speed at which it's going on, you mentioned simplicity as a possible cure, a possible anecdote and answer. Talk to me a little bit about simplicity at this moment of complexity.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Well, I think, Robert, you teach this all the time. You say we can easily create that complex look for instance, on anything that we're working on. So if it's your phone, it's your mobile phone and you have it up and you can't find a button where you need to have that button. That's the time for us to simplify what it is that we believe people are looking for at that time. What are our members needing the most at this time? So even in design, the simplicity of making it not be three steps, but it's right there when you need it. So that might mean, as you just said, throwing out the content ideas for what we were going to do for the next three months, and replacing them with great content that focuses on the need of what's going on in all of our lives at this very moment.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And the second component that I think that we don't think about is, there such a thing as social networking, and we all know that we love to do it. We promote the things that we are passionate about, whether that be sales, service. But then there's actual social servicing. And we have two very different groups in Consumers that do that behind the scenes.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
So, if someone is asking questions on the different tools that they use, we try to be able to answer those questions with compassion and empathy and listening, and really make it so that people know that they have a voice somewhere. That's a simplistic way that instead of them thinking that we are immediately pushing sales, we are instead pushing service. How can we help you?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And that might be as simple as look at I want to know how to upload my dog of the day, and I didn't know how the link worked. Well, how can we serve you? There's very different feelings when people feel served versus feeling sold to. And right now you know, have you received a cold call on an email or even a phone call in the last few days? You just shake your head and look and go ah. You just don't feel right.
James Robert Lay:
It's so out of touch, it's so cold. You and I were talking even beforehand, when everything kind of went downhill recently, we had to adjust my book launch because just the timing, it just didn't feel right. And I think like emotional intelligence in today's digital world is really a strategic and competitive advantage for financial brands. It's something that I feel can be taught, but now's the time.
James Robert Lay:
You even mentioned something here about simplifying the complex. I was speaking with Brian Ley from Alpharank, and we were talking about the point of cognitive load and thinking through critically the different steps of the digital consumer buying journey because even as everything's going on with COVID-19, the coronavirus, banking is not stopping. People are looking for answers, they're looking for guidance. This is our time to shine and step up. Right?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And you know, no one is saying, "Hey, don't buy a house right now," right? We're here to help you buy a house. Now, the question becomes, okay, and how can we simplify that process and make it so it's easy and make it so, hey, guess what, you might not even do anything until it's closing time. You're doing everything digitally, everything with a fast app. You're refinancing your house, which that is a huge... that might be a sale to some people, but I'll tell you that is an absolute need for others right now. It isn't thought of as a sale, it's a service that needs to be done.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
So you're not hiding any of that, but you're taking the time to say how can it be simple? If there's a thousand papers that have to be signed, how can it be simple? And so what tools are you using? And if you don't have those tools start researching now, because I'll tell you, I don't think this world that we knew is going to come back the way we had it before. I just don't. And I think we need to be ready to be okay with doing more digitally, but with heart.
James Robert Lay:
Oh my gosh. I think what you said is spot on. The world that we knew will never be the same. Isn't that always the case when we go through a period like this? There's ancient wisdom that tells a story of a group of tribal people who left oppression. And they were grumbling and griping like, "Well, the old world used to be better." And they kept looking behind them and like, "Well, why are we here and suffering?"
James Robert Lay:
And no, it's more of it's the mindset of looking ahead into the future opportunities that can be created out of this. And this is more of a personal question for you, but mindset staying positive in this time, because people are going to follow those and you use the word, calm before. People are going to follow those that communicate calm, that communicate confidence. People are looking for courage. What are you doing right now, personally, just to take care of your yourself, take care of your mind?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Well, we have a really big family. So our family is now spread out. I have two grandkids that are that are local here. So this is really the first time that my husband and I have been working together. He will be sometimes remote with me and that's been delightful. But, I immediately, you're going to laugh, I bought a putting green. And I'm going to put up a putting green in our condo because I just think we need activities as well as what we used to do, which we love going to Downtown Grand Rapids and stopping at little locations to grab something to eat. Well, we can't do that right now. So, our goal is to locally order foods from places we can. But then think of things that make us laugh.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
We're big, huge game players so we play cribbage all the time. I just saw on Twitter and I loved this, that there's a Chrome extension that allows you to play Netflix as a group.
James Robert Lay:
Community.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Yeah. You say this is the time we're going to be on, we're going to watch this movie and you all chat together and laugh together. And so my kids are all over the country and they're quarantine too, so we're planning on a big movie popcorn night. We're kind of arguing over the movie right now, but it will be good.
James Robert Lay:
You've just hit on a couple of key points. Take care of your physical wellbeing. You talked about your putting green. We've got all the gyms closed here in Houston and I'm a runner, so I could do that outside. But my wife, she's the one who's always at the gym and going to the classes. So, when the gyms closed before everything else closes I was like, "Let's go buy a weight set. Just some free weights so that we can stay active." I made a list for my kids to try to keep a daily routine from them now that schools are closed. They're trying to figure out what to do next. But I have them writing letters to grandparents, physical letters. I have them doing some FaceTiming so that they keep the social conditioning.
James Robert Lay:
And your point about community, there's a platform that we've been recommending now for about the past year for financial brands to start building. And maybe that now's the time to do this, to start building digital community. That platform is called Mighty Networks. So, I highly recommend a financial brand thinking about how they can build a sense of digital community on the consumer side, on the business side, check out Mighty Networks because it can bring people together around a common purpose as we were talking about before.
James Robert Lay:
Looking ahead now over the next, let's just keep the timeline pretty close because there's still so much in the air, three months, six months, nine months, no more than a year from now. Maybe the end of 2020. What do you think needs to happen between now and then for financial brands to continue to make progress along their digital growth journey?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
I think you have to be ready to pivot. And our focus is right now on helping people if they have not yet learned how to download a mobile app. Learn how to take a check with their phone. Learn how to make sure that you can bank through a drive-thru and talk to a person if you'd like to. Change is not easy for many. We are blessed to have a very forward-thinking organization and our drive-thrus are all interactive tellers now. So, there isn't a place where you would go that you would have a different experience. And they can also be ATMs so if people need cash, of course, they can do that.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
So, I think it's been thinking about what is the new normal? If it's three to six to nine months, when do the business appointments become business appointments that are to sell, to showcase your services? Right now business appointments are making sure that we're helping all of our businesses succeed when all of a sudden it could be that there's not someone walking in their door because it was a forced... no one can walk in your door. So how can we be that organization that helps.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Tomorrow I'll be doing some FaceTime Live videos at retailers that are banking partners of ours to showcase you can still do the following things to help that company succeed. The same is true for members. So, for short term, three to six months is that. But then it's okay, when is it that you really see that there might be a need that a new service should be delivered to the marketplace because of the change that has happened? And are you thinking about that now? What's the long term that makes it okay to turn on, for instance, all appointments for everybody? Everybody in the organization can have an appointment placed on their Outlook calendar that can become a Zoom, as we say right now versus right now there's certain individuals that have it. So, I think it's thinking intentionally, thoughtfully about not only what people might need, but also making those products and services different and unique to those individuals that need a different service than let's say a mortgage.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. You mentioned a couple of key points that I think financial brands could consider to think about. It's what are the new services that are going to come out of this? I've been talking about this now for three or four years, the need to put together some type of we'll call it consumer coaching program. And then on the business side, it's almost like a business advisory platform or service, maybe even some type of, and this could be at the community level. But some type of like innovation incubator, because growth is going to be on everyone's mind. You've mentioned something that kind of spurred a thought off the top of my head. Tell me about the restaurants or the little local places that you and your husband like to go in Grand Rapids.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Well, we live in Grand Rapids on an area called Bridge Street. And Bridge Street just has a fabulous reorganization. And it's just re-energized, it's just beautiful. So, when you're walking down there's a Butcher's Union, there's New Holland Brewery. There's Fratelli's. There's all these tiny little places. There's some that have been there forever, like Kiehl's and Anchor. And it's become a little place where people just have hop, hop, hop, hop, and it's right next door to Downtown Grand Rapids so you just walk across the bridge, which some of it you might even be able to see behind me. You walk across the bridge and then you head into downtown where all of our major events happen.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
We have a conference and an arena that are now filling the Big E's. The Big E's are coming to Grand Rapids, Michigan, to West Michigan. And when that happens and all of a sudden it stops, then you have to ask yourself, okay, is Fratelli's still open so I can do takeout? How about Uber Eats, who's doing that? Ask yourself is there... in Kalamazoo, this was amazing to me today. I saw a email that came out that said, "Hey, buy a gift card, send a gift card." And it's all the downtown local businesses that have... are still open for business, but they can't have sit down anymore. And so they decided to buy a gift card, send a gift card. So, I can literally send gift cards to my friends and say go get your takeout dinner tonight. I mean, how fun it was that?
James Robert Lay:
I love it. And so hearing you talk through, a couple of thoughts popped in my head that I'm going to probably have to think through a little bit further because... but I'm going to share them with you first and foremost here. They're kind of raw, but maybe you could apply some of this thinking through the credit union. And what I mean is, so you've got these small local restaurants. They are still doing takeout it sounds like, but you can't have anyone come in. What if you could provide some type of advisory around almost like the subscription economy. And what I mean by that, Panera, they just launched their eight to nine dollar a month unlimited coffee. That's the subscription model in and of itself. But if we look at this applied to the local business, the local restaurant level, these restaurants could sell maybe it's like the single dinner plan, the couple dinner plan for two, the family dinner plan for four. And the normal tab for a person let's just say $10.
James Robert Lay:
So they pre-sell $50 of five nights worth of dinners. They're getting revenue upfront. It's on a subscription model on a weekly basis so it's hitting someone's card and it's creating a little bit of positive cash flow. They're able to then go and do more of like a pre-fixed menu to where this is our Monday dinner. This is our Tuesday dinner. So it helps with cost control. That's going to help them be more profitable. And then for their servers and waitstaff, depending upon what's going on with Uber Eats, their server and waitstaff could become the delivery model. So, that's just kind of something to think when hearing you talk.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Isn't it absolutely exciting to be able to think like that? That how can we survive when all of a sudden everything that we know has stopped, but our knowledge doesn't stop. I think long term the businesses that I know that will succeed are relationship-based businesses. They're the ones that truly know their members and customers. They relate with them and they also feel their pain and help ease their pain. That is not going to change no matter what new tools come out to succeed digitally, that truly will be what works the best.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
But I think that the other component of success is how do we treat our colleagues and how do we make sure that the teammates that you work with understand the journey that you're on. If there is fear about what's going on with COVID-19, there is deep fear about what's changing rapidly in digital growth. Whether there would have been COVID-19 or not, the fear of I'm going to lose my job is real. There's going to be a robot that takes over. Artificial intelligence is much smarter than me. Those fears don't go away. They don't.
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
And now that all of a sudden the service industry has been halted and there is a drastic change in how we're serving, I think it's now more than ever the leaders of all of our organizations that really help ease those fears and help our employees also understand with digital growth becomes growth in you personally, there's so much that you'll be able to learn as long as you're open to do that, but bring everyone along with you in the journey itself. And I think we've got time right now to actually be able to do that.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. You've said it so well and so succinctly. Digital growth is a journey. It is a journey from good to great. It is a journey that must be centered around people, both internally and externally. Lynne, thank you so much for the conversation, the insights and sharing your own digital growth journey today. If anyone's listening and wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that as a follow-up?
Lynne Jarman Johnson:
Well, I think it's easy. I'm on all social media as @mojocmo. That's M-O-J-O C-M-O. Find me there. My phone number is always listed. My email is listed, and I'll be glad to connect. And thank you so much. This has been a delight.
James Robert Lay:
Thank you so much for joining me on another episode of Banking On Digital Growth, Lynne. Until next time, be well, do good and wash your hands.
