Garick Giroir:
So if you can help the people creating the work understand the feeling that they're eliciting and what this means to people, and how they fit into the greater story of not just the credit union movement, but individual people in their financial journey, now all of a sudden we have purpose.
James Robert Lay:
Greetings and hello, I am James Robert Lay, and welcome to episode 269 of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast. Today's episode is part of the Digital Growth Journey series, and I'm excited to welcome Garick Giroir to the show. Garick is the marketing manager at Louisiana Federal Credit Union and Garick and I had a conversation going all the way back to episode number 89 about content strategy. However, since that time, Garick's role at the credit union has continued to transform as a leader, and along the way he's made some very keen observations about leadership through the lens of a D&D DM. What's a D&D DM, you ask? Keep listening because I promise that you're going to walk away with practical insights that you can apply as you continue to move forward and make progress along your own journey of growth at your bank, at your credit union or at your FinTech. Welcome to the show, Garick. It is good to share time with you today, buddy.
Garick Giroir:
It's great to be back on. Thank you for inviting me.
James Robert Lay:
100%. Before we get into talking about what I'm going to frame is transforming leadership and the transformation of leadership within financial brands, the leadership lessons that you've learned along the way, and I think even more uniquely the leadership lessons that you have gained as a D&D DM, which we're going to get into that in just a bit. What is good in your world? What is positive right now personally or professionally?
Garick Giroir:
Well, we're growing our team over here at Louisiana FCU. We brought in some new talent and I have assumed the role of marketing manager and it's been really great learning more about our organization outside of content, because as you know, I was the content strategist before that. So learning more about the organization as a whole and what each individual does. It's also been great kind of showing the new team members the ropes. And one of them is fairly young, reminds me of back when I was a blue chipper. So I'm hoping I can impart some wisdom onto her that I wish people would've told me back in the day.
James Robert Lay:
I think it's a great transition here because there is a transformation of leadership happening within financial brands as millennials are now moving into these leadership roles. And as a result, millennials by their very nature are just bringing a different perspective. It's not good, it's not bad, it's just life experience that got us to this point. We see things a little bit differently. And for context, for the dear listener, I am not a true millennial. I would identify as an xennial. Being born in 1981, I'm this bridge generation when you look at the research.
Garick Giroir:
The elder millennial.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. And so we're kind of putting this funny, we're not true Gen X, but we're not true millennial. We're xennials bridging, essentially what life was like before the internet. Growing up in a world where you played outside, you skinned your knees up, you played till the sun went down kind of a thing, and it was just a different time. And so that shaped my reality, and I think for the dear listener, for context, where are you coming from to begin with as a millennial leader?
Garick Giroir:
Well, I'm a true millennial. So that means when I was coming out of college with all of my colleagues and cohorts of the same age, we came out one of the smartest generations because of the internet. And while I wouldn't say we were all experts at anything, we all knew a lot about a lot of things. And so there was a lot of competition and I remember that mixed with the recession it was very hard to get hired.
James Robert Lay:
What year was this that you came out of college?
Garick Giroir:
So I came out of college, this would've been 2011.
James Robert Lay:
Okay, yup. So 2008, so three years after 2008.
Garick Giroir:
Yeah.
James Robert Lay:
And I'm using this for framing because I think we forget how far we have come in a relatively short period of time. So you're coming out in 2011.
Garick Giroir:
Yeah. And I remember going in and I was green, but I do recall doing a lot of good work for people and there was this overlying feeling of like, you're lucky to be working here, you should be thanking us, which I feel like has changed nowadays. I've seen that shift with the great resignation. Now we're looking to hire new talent and attract people, but I remember back in the day I'd show up and it was like, "Hey, here's what I have to offer. Can I work here though? Can you start at the salary of free?" And I'm like, "If it gets my foot in the door."
James Robert Lay:
Yeah, and I think that's great context because if you think about those experiences, what lessons have you learned along the way that have shaped your view as a leader today in 2023 looking ahead towards the future?
Garick Giroir:
Well, there was definitely a hustle aspect to it and it kept me humble because it was like every day I had to prove my worth because at the time I really got in, I was like, "Hey, I can do social media." And they're like, "Oh, that new thing? Come on in." And I feel like a lot of marketers are nodding their heads and understand that because that's how a lot of us got our start, but I remember it being I was able to grow my talents, but didn't necessarily get the praise along with it. And so I look at everything now in this lens of I could be wrong, this is good, but let's talk it out. You know what I mean? I'm not above anything.
James Robert Lay:
Let's talk it out. Let's have a conversation. Let's dialogue. Let's discuss discover together. How do you see leadership has transformed, say, pre-2000? And I know once again, I know you came into the working world in 2011, but a lot of those leaders at the time were being shaped by pre-2000 trends to where leadership is today in 2023. What has transformed with leadership as just a general thesis here from your perspective?
Garick Giroir:
That's a good question, and I don't know if I can speak definitively about it, but I have noticed that when I would be working with a lot of older leaders, not at Louisiana FCU, but throughout my career, it was a lot of here's the order, go do it. But nowadays, I find as I'm working with people around my age, there always has to be a why. And that's not to convince your team to do it. It is to help them actually understand what they're doing and so there's no confusion and they're able to make it their own, right?It becomes their purpose and they can run with it and they feel like they've contributed instead of being a cog in the machine.
James Robert Lay:
That right there I think is an interesting pattern and an important one for the dear listener to queue into because historically leadership we could maybe diagnose as command and control. You've got these few on the top who are providing direction and orders down to the lower tier, but now there's been a shift and maybe the trend is something, and there's a book by this title, Open Strategy. We're willing to have more of a wider perspective of input, but also more importantly, coming back to the dialogue, discussion and discourse to help people understand why it is that they are doing what they're doing or why it is that they're being asked. And I know that creates some friction within historical "hierarchies," but this comes back to basic human behavior. And I even think about my own kids, when I tell them to do something, I can provide the command, provide the "order," if you will, or I can sit down and have a conversation, say, "Hey, this is why this is important.” And when I watch that behavior, I get far more buy-in when I communicate the why. And then talk about the what and the how versus just the what, yet alone even the how, which I know is a big thing for what y'all do at Louisiana FCU. Think about that, like the why for just a bit, and how that has helped to attract the right people because you're communicating the why, not just the what and the how.
Garick Giroir:
Yeah. Well, we work in an industry that is not visibly sexy out the gate. There's a lot of young talent and we work in the greater New Orleans area, so people want to go work for some of the tourism spots or they want to go work for the Saints or the Pelicans. And there are a lot of great places to work that are nationally recognized. So when we show up and we're a credit union, I mean, that's not something people grew up writing in their like, what do you want to be when you grow up essays? But I really like explaining to them, them being anyone looking to make the move or is interested in working here or even working in the financial industry, what it is that we do for people, especially credit unions and how credit unions differ from banks. And once you start explaining to people that this was built as a community to offer something that these national banks don't, you really see their eyes start to glow and you're like, "Yeah, this is a purpose. You have a purpose here." And that's where we start and we can go from there. We're about helping people. And all of a sudden it goes from being vaults in money and wearing suits to now we're looking at the member and seeing them as more than a number and we're able to address their specific issues or goals.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. And I think that it's that sense of purpose, that cause that is far greater than the present moment that attracts some people and it repels others, but that's okay. I don't think we can afford to be kind of just lukewarm anymore because the world has transformed. And because the world has transformed, that technology is driving a lot of that transformation cause. Purpose is really central to future growth, that is the why. And as I wrote about in Banking on Digital Growth, people buy the why, not just externally, but I even think probably more importantly internally. Because if we lack an engaged culture, and back to your point about the great resignation, people are checking out. And I think a lot of it is because they're emotionally disconnected to the work that they're doing. And the idea of emotion in a vertical like banking and a vertical like financial services does create some conflict, it does create some tension particularly for a leadership team who might be viewing the world from that pre-2000 perspective. Thinking about yourself as a millennial leader, what is maybe a common misunderstanding or a misconception that others might have about millennial leaders that you'd like to just provide a different point of view around it? Because this is all about learning and I think the more that we can facilitate a dialogue and a discussion and a discourse, the more we can create stronger and more empowered teams internally, and then as a result create stronger relationships externally with account holders, members and people in the communities that we're serving.
Garick Giroir:
I'd say the biggest misconception with, not just millennial leaders, but millennials in the workplace is that we're pushovers. That you can jump any amount of work on us. And it's kind of a meme on TikTok at this point, that you'll get the call on Saturday, "Hey, can you unzip this file for me?" Something really easy. It's like, "Yeah, yeah, let me get on that.” And while I do think that that stereotype has come to be because it is based in truth, that has not been my experience that millennials are pushovers. I just think that we're coming in behind leaders that were the, "Hey, I am authority, I am what I say, that is it.” Whereas with millennials, from my experience, we will sit at a table with the interns, with the C-suite, with anyone and speak about things, presenting ourselves as the experts, but knowing I could be wrong, I would love to get your opinion on this.
James Robert Lay:
That right there I think is a key insight, once again, for the dear listener. It's like we're coming, and I say this all the time, like I'm right, but I have the right to change and transform my opinion based upon a new perspective. And a lot of times I will, and that's really deeply rooted in being a lifelong learner. I think the world is transforming so quickly that we can't attach ourselves to an idea or perspective and believe that to be the ultimate truth. Because if I think back over the last 20 plus years of building this business, what I know today is vastly different than what I knew 20 years ago. I would even say it's very different than what I would have known two years ago. And that's one of the reasons I love doing this podcast because I am constantly learning and it is challenging my own biases. And I think when you talked about millennial leaders will sit down regardless of title, regardless of role and have a conversation. I think about the conversation that we were having at lunch recently when you brought some of your new team members into Houston. We spent a day together just getting some perspective and sharing key models and methodologies and you shared something that caught my attention when at lunch you mentioned, and this was a personal perspective, you mentioned that, and it's almost like you talked in code, you said that you were a D&D DM and I knew enough about pop culture to pick up on the D&D, that being Dungeons & Dragons. But once again as an xennial, I was like, DM, it sounds like a direct message or is that a Dungeon Master? And I knew what you were talking about, but I want to stay on this pop culture perspective once again for context, for the dear listener, because we have a global audience and they are coming from multiple generations. They are coming from still America's greatest generation. They are coming from baby boomers, they are coming from gen X, millennial, even Gen Z. There's been a resurgence of D&D, Dungeons & Dragons.
Garick Giroir:
Perhaps.
James Robert Lay:
Yes. And so let's just set some context of what has driven this perspective because we're going to go from there into how your experience as a Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master has influenced your leadership perspective. But let's roll this back, because if I think about D&D from a pop culture perspective, top of mind comes Stranger Things right here. So where has this resurgence of Dungeons & Dragons, which in the '80s was kind of this bad thing. I never played it as a kid, and I think a lot of it was just my own family upbringing. But now as looking at this from a modern pop culture perspective, where's this resurgence been here?
Garick Giroir:
It is because those who played it have come of age and are in positions to create content and movies and shows in Hollywood and online. It's kind of like how when we were kids, all of the movies were around the '50s because the people who grew up in the '50s were romanticizing the time when they were kids. And right now we're seeing that and I'm actually starting to see Millennial romanticizing, and like there's a Disney movie that came out with the Red Panda, I can't think of it, but that one is, I was watching that just like, "Oh, holy nostalgia, this is incredible." because whoever is making the content, you will see their loves bleed into that.
James Robert Lay:
That's a great point. And once again, this is about generational shifts and looking for these trends in generational shifts because you're seeing a resurgence of '80s nostalgia. You have Stranger Things, you have Cobra Kai, Top Gun: Maverick coming out, you're seeing all of these-
Garick Giroir:
Indiana Jones.
James Robert Lay:
Indiana Jones part five. I mean, it's just I thought, what was it? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was the last one that was four, but I mean, I grew up watching Indiana Jones 1, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, The Last Crusade.
Garick Giroir:
Oh God, yes, yes.
James Robert Lay:
Then Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and then now you've got this next one. And a lot of it comes down to feeling an emotion once again. When you think about this resurgence of pop culture, it'll be interesting, okay, well, what happens with the '90s And then we're going to get into early 2000 pop culture. And it's just these trends, and I think regardless of your generation, if you can be aware of trends in culture that's going to impact organizational culture, that's going to impact leadership culture. And so let's dive into this because you know are a D&D Dungeon Master, Dungeon & Dungeon. As a kid who did not play this, and I'm going to speak for the deal, what the heck is that?
Garick Giroir:
So look, I didn't play as a kid either, but I'll say calling it D&D is like calling a search function Google. D&D is one brand, so it's technically called tabletop role-playing. And real purists, which I am not, would say that D&D is one of them, but not the best one. And so everyone has their preferences. But yeah, I didn't know about it either. And so I had watched a now controversial episode of Community, and I had heard of D&D as well, and every reference I'd seen of it, of imagery were people with, I don't know, graphs and charts. And I was like, okay, I thought it was a board game, but in Community, they played it as theater of the mind. That is sitting at a table with a group of people giving them their character sheets and talking through scenarios and then just all they had was paper, dice and the company around them. And I was like, that's what D&D is? That will take the most fun I've ever seen. I roll with the nerdy crowd and so I was able to, shout out in case Javis listens to this, but he DMed our first game. We had a ton of people show up, so it was really chaotic, but that was in 2016 and we're like, "That was amazing. Let's keep doing it." But I wanted to DM, but I was very intimidated by it.
James Robert Lay:
Let me pause you on this, because one of the things that you said that this is Theater of the Mind here. I think that's a skillset as a modern leader, if I take Theater of the Mind and run this through a different filter, that's strategy because you're playing out different possible scenarios. And when you play Theater of the Mind, you're able to vision multiple paths forward and essentially live those different realities as a leader before they actually happen. Am I mistaken with this perspective here?
Garick Giroir:
You're 100% correct. And so there are two ways of DMing and you can mix them, but some people like having the visuals, having a map out or a grid and having maybe the figures or if you're online having an icon where it shows you exactly what it is that you're seeing. In that situation, there is no mistaking where you are and what options are available. I like Theater of the Mind because people are doing exactly what you're talking about. We're not all seeing the same picture, but we understand the same concept. And so people ask different questions and they come to it with a different perspective.
James Robert Lay:
So let me pause you right there again.
Garick Giroir:
Yeah.
James Robert Lay:
People ask different questions so they come to a realization with a different perspective. How important is the skillset of asking questions as a modern leader today? Because once again, we come back to the fact that we can't possibly know it all, but asking questions is a skill. What's your take on that? Because when you get really good at asking really good questions, you're going to continuously see things differently than how you saw them before, which is going to then influence how you think. So connect these dots for me here.
Garick Giroir:
Two things come to mind. One, asking questions can get you out of any perceived rut. When you start to really think about what it is you're doing and asking, is there a better way to do this? Are we spinning our wheels here? That is when you're able to start imagining, like in D&D, where are the exit points? Is there another room that leads elsewhere that has the, let's say, the treasure within it? It also empowers people, asking questions. So now that I'm in a leadership position, going to my team, I have to really stop myself from just telling them things because in my mind I'm like, I know this and I know a lot about this, I'm going to tell them, but that is going into a situation assuming you know better and anything you come up with will be better than anyone else could come up with. And so I find that going to them with questions, is there any way to do this? How could we better do this? They're able to bring multiple options forward and sometimes like," Ooh, I haven't even thought about it in that way." And so we're able to not just be a team who is doing what someone tells them, we are bringing all of our talents to the table and we are collectively better for it.
James Robert Lay:
So there's that strategy piece once again coming through. And I think when you go to the team and you ask questions, they're beginning to self-actualize the possibilities. And when they self-actualize the possibilities that then directly influences and increases there likelihood to take ownership, to take responsibility to move forward. And so now as maybe a modern leader, they help to facilitate the mind of those that they're working with. They're helping to coach those they're working with so that they're now seeing things differently than they were seeing them before. This idea of perspective, perspective being context plus framing, when you think about the lessons that you have now learned as a Dungeon Master, what have been some of those leadership lessons that you're able to practically apply going forward as a modern leader?
Garick Giroir:
I'll take you through what it is that the players actually do. So we mentioned D&D, it is sort of a collective storytelling game. And so each player takes on a character that is not them, their own fictional character who overcomes various conflicts. And so the DM or the Dungeon Master acts as the primary storyteller and sometimes the creator of the adventure. And so it's a three-step process. The DM describes the scenario, the players decide what they want to do, and then the players roll dice to determine if they succeed or fail. The DM's job in that very straightforward process is to create something that is fun and challenging and promotes collaboration and creates an environment where the players work together to achieve goals and hopefully walk away from it going, "Man, we really did it. That was fun."
James Robert Lay:
As you're talking through that, you mentioned another key lesson for modern leadership that you take and can take away as a Dungeon Master. Now not everyone who's listening to this podcast is going to go round and be a Dungeon Master. I think the key takeaway are what are the practical elements here, you mentioned storytelling. Storytelling is a skill set and it's one that I think you've just naturally developed over time through your own personal journey of growth, which maybe then yields into being able to help facilitate the games here as a Dungeon Master. But practically speaking, as a modern leader, why is it important to develop the skill of telling good stories? And I think even more importantly than that, you mentioned in your perspective that you just shared conflict. So what is the role of stories as a modern leader and why do modern leaders need to develop this skillset here?
Garick Giroir:
So when we're playing D&D, I'm mapping out a scenario, there is always a chance that there will be inaction. And so the more inaction there is, the more I feel it as a DM because the game is boring. So there's always a chance that people are going to show up to the table and either not do anything or not be interested in, we should go there, there's a motivation to it. And so instead of me telling them, this is in that room, remember you wanted that earlier. If you come to it as a story and you have over time build the lore and now everyone has their in depth backgrounds, you know exactly what's going on, not just within your circle, but within the atmosphere around you. Now you don't have to tell them to do anything. In fact, they're going to be like, "Hey, we got to do this. Do we see any route to do this?" I'm empowering them through storytelling to help write that story. And I think that that's an important leadership quality. It is less, if you bring that to the workplace, once again, it's like you're not just pointing at something and saying do it. That to me, storytelling is the why. And we mentioned all the '80s movies coming out and the popularity of that, it's because they feel like home. So if you can help the people creating the work understand the feeling that they're eliciting and what this means to people, and how they fit into the greater story of not just the credit union movement, but individual people in their financial journey, now all of a sudden we have purpose. And I'm not having to show up and be like, "Hey, have you written these emails yet?" No, they already know what they're going to say. They've been thinking about it or they knew exactly what they wanted to say as soon as the campaign rolled around. You know what I mean?
James Robert Lay:
Right. And when you think about developing this skillset as a storyteller within a leadership role to inspire, and I think that's the key, it's to inspire other people beyond the perspective of the present moment. Where are the opportunities, or what might the opportunities be for the dear listener?Practically speaking, to do just this because it is a skill and it does take time to develop. I mean, we have entire chapter on this subject in Banking on Digital Growth. I have an entire class of this in the Digital Growth University. There are certain art types that drive deep into human behavior and have thousands of years of proof points. Joseph Campbell wrote The Hero with a Thousand Faces, I believe it was in 1949, which then George Lucas essentially copied to build Star Wars in the myth of Star Wars around. So what can the dear listener do to bring this into their day-to-day work life, even though they might not be a Dungeon Master, the skills are practically transferrable.
Garick Giroir:
Well, stories happen every day, and I would say that a lot of times we don't necessarily see them playing out. It's not until maybe much further down the line that we're able to recognize a pattern or that something meant a lot. A story's not always going to slap you in the face and say, hey, this is meaningful. One way we've done that or tried to capture these magic moments at Louisiana FCU is we have why stories. And so our team is given an opportunity to submit meaningful stories throughout their day or meaningful stories that have happened to them that quarter, that month, that week, they submit them to our CEO, Rhonda, and when we come together for the staff meeting, she'll pick the best ones or the ones that resonate the most with her and she'll read them out loud. And there's not a dry eye in the house sometimes. And other times we're all just laughing because we've all been in a similar situation. And so that really helps not just build FOMO where, "Hey, I want to help someone like that too." But it also, you start to see those themes form and you can take individual stories and see a grander story from it.
James Robert Lay:
So that's a very practical use case right there for the dear listener to apply. And it makes me think of an experience that I just recently had working with a community financial brand, has a lot of legacy, has a lot of history, and facilitated a half day session for their executive leadership team along with other senior leaders. And a lot of this was sharing perspective of how this organization has been applying their purpose. Because what was happening there was a lack of context of, because everyone is off doing their own work within their own unique business unit. And so the question was, are we really living this purpose out or is this just words on a wall kind of a thing?
Garick Giroir:
And that's very common.
James Robert Lay:
But when this group of 20, 25 people all came together to spend four hours, something that the CEO shared will probably stick with me forever. He said, "We need to do this more often. We need to come around the campfire and tell these stories.” And I remember one senior leader was hearing someone else share, and she goes, "I just got goosebumps from this experience here." And so for the dear listener, an opportunity is to build a system, to build a process internally to capture, back to what you were mentioning, Garick, capture the why stories, capture those. I would say be able to communicate them or create the narrative even further. Your CEO, Rhonda, is doing this. And then catalog them so that they could be referenced going forward into the future, whether that be internally or externally. And you're building a library of human experience that goes far beyond just the commoditized transaction. But once again, I think this is a skillset for a modern leader to build around and develop. And if there is someone who is listening thinking, it's a lot of time, I don't have time to even think about this. I want to pull up and quote John Kotter, who is a professor of leadership at the Harvard Business School. And John Kotter notes "Those in leadership positions who fail to grasp or use the power of stories, risk failure for themselves and for their companies.” And I think that's where you have, as an individual, as a modern leader, you have a unique perspective that you can use to empower others to do the same.
Garick Giroir:
And sometimes you have to coach people because there's one thing we found is that they're like, "I don't know what to write about." And if this is someone close to, you'd be like, "Oh, what about that, what you were telling me about the other day?” And they're like, "No, well, that's just part of my job." So that's the thing when you're up close, learning to recognize the magic or helping people to understand what magic looks like when they see it.
James Robert Lay:
So that's a good point because if we just assume that's just part of my job, we devalue that to where when you have someone providing a different perspective, once again perspective being context and framing, they're helping to reframe this. And so what we devalue, what we take for granted is truly transformational. I think sometimes that does require an outside objective. And I think through this conversation that I was facilitating, another senior leader kept saying, "This has been such a helpful discussion because you're helping us see what we don't see. You're helping to confirm things that either we're thinking about or we're forgetting about over here.” Knowing what you know, as a leader as a Dungeon Master, big roadblocks are big dangers, applying this thinking. Where might there be roadblocks that hold us back from applying this thinking going forward?
Garick Giroir:
I'd say it's a little dicey when you are trying to tell a story as a group and people start to see themselves perhaps as the main character. And so in this case, going forward, and we've discussed this James Robert in our last podcast interview, making it all about yourself. And no, you're no longer looking at the issues of others. You're looking at it as here is what I have accomplished. Here is my list of accomplishments. Suddenly that's not a story because there's no conflict in it. You haven't solved anything, and it's only about you. And that's when you run into in work presenting everything like, "I want you to do this, here's how you can help me.” And suddenly everyone is just an NPC, which is D&D speak for a non playable character because you are the main character. So there has to be times where you step back, just like you said, and realize all of the stories are intertwined and together is forming a greater story that is worth hearing.
James Robert Lay:
I think the ultimate goal as a leader, and I'm going to speak from my own perspective for this, and I'm looking at this through the lens of Star Wars, every leader is really just a helpful guide. And I think about what happened to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan, he got struck down by Darth Vader and then he disappeared. I think about Yoda. Yoda literally just disappeared on Dagobah in, what was that? I think it was at the start of Return of the Jedi. And then if you think about episode 7, 8, 9, what happened to Luke when he was teaching Ray? He disappeared off the rock. And every leader should be able to get their team to a level to where they can just disappear because they've done their role to elevate others to a level of leadership that they're now taking the role of the helpful guide. Because I mean, if you think about it was Obi-Wan and Yoda who guided Luke, and then they disappeared, and then it was Luke who began to guide Ray, and then Luke disappeared. So I think that's the ultimate level of leadership is when you can just disappear because you've done your job to elevate other people to a state that they could not perceive before.
Garick Giroir:
And so as a millennial, this goes back perfectly to what you were asking me right out the gate about millennial leaders, because when I was coming up and it was so competitive, I remember people telling me, "Put yourself in a position where you are the only one holding onto this knowledge or you are fireable.” So the idea was that you master something and then hold onto it dearly so that if you're ever in a position where your job's in danger, you call their bluff and say, "Well, what are you going to do without me?" And so that's dangerous thinking. I get it that it's a survival instinct when you're young, but I'm in a position now where I want to know that I could go Obi-Wan off somewhere, hopefully don't get chopped in half, but I can disappear and the world will continue because that is what I've passed on. The fact that I don't need to be there present, cranking the wheel, making sure that things get done, shows me that's proof in the pudding that I've done my job, that I have brought together the right people. And we all are communicating, we can do this as a team. I don't have to call the plays because we have our experts on the field.
James Robert Lay:
That right there is a great thought to wrap up on here because if you think about the historical view of this is about learn al you can, hoard that knowledge, don't share with anyone else because that makes you that much more valuable. That looks at the world through a very scarce mindset. It's a zero sum game. We have winners and we have losers, but really kind of this modern perspective that we're sharing through your experience and through the experience of being a Dungeon Master and facilitating the mind of others, leading the minds of others to see beyond what they can perceive at the present moment, and maybe even tell a little bit of a different story. It's through a lens of abundance that there's plenty of opportunity to go around. And the more that I think we can lean into that the, we're all going to be better off for that. So as we wrap up, always like to send the dear listener off with something practical that they can do next on their own journey of growth to apply some of the thinking here, because all transformation begins with a small simple step for today. What's one thing that they can do next based upon the experience that you have gained both as a leader as well as a Dungeon Master?
Garick Giroir:
I believe that meeting with your team or your players every once in a while, not too often, but meeting with them, sitting with them one-on-one and asking, "What can I do better for you?" And leaving your ego at the door and saying, "What would you like to see? How can I help you grow?” And really understanding what it is that they want out of a situation. It's empowering. And if you play it right, as in not getting defensive and explaining your own actions, if you sit and listen, there's a lot to learn from there. Because the truth is valuable and sometimes you run from it and it doesn't always feel good, but if you take that and actually put energy into correcting that or to grow yourself, everyone wins. And you've become an even more complete leader and someone that your employees are willing to put in hours and energy and time away from their family for.
James Robert Lay:
Yeah. I think about, that's such a tremendous question, what can I do even better for you as a leader? I have that conversation with my kids. What can I do even better for you as a dad? What can I do even better for you as a father?Because I know that I'm probably missing things and the truth sting sometimes, but if I didn't ask that question, I would go on doing the same exact thing. And in some cases, I have gone on doing the same exact things, and whenever I sit down and have that conversation, I'm like, it hurts, but then it just brings that level of awareness, like, okay, this is an optimization that I can make going forward into the future to be an even better father for my kids. And then if we take this professionally to be an even better leader for my team, and it requires humility. And like you said, you have to check your ego at the door. But as Ryan Holiday has written in his book by the title, Ego Is the Enemy. And I think the more that we can let that go and essentially die to self-
Garick Giroir:
It's hard.
James Robert Lay:
... the better leaders that we will become. And it does, it takes practice, it takes a lot of self-awareness, but it is an opportunity that I think provides exponential growth opportunities in all different areas of our life both personally and professionally.
Garick Giroir:
A lot of the times the things that hurt the most hurt because it's true. And just remember that, if it triggers you, maybe it's getting close to something that you know can grow in, an area you can grow in.
James Robert Lay:
Very, very true. Garick, this has been a great conversation. If someone wants to continue the discussion we've started here today, what is the best way for them to reach out, say hello, connect with you, and maybe even play a game of Dungeons & Dragons?
Garick Giroir:
LinkedIn, always a great way to reach out to me. I also have an Instagram, but let's say LinkedIn for now.
James Robert Lay:
Connect with Garick, learn with Garick, grow with Garick. Garick, thank you so much for joining me for another episode of Banking on Digital Growth. This has been a lot of fun.
Garick Giroir:
Thanks for having me back
James Robert Lay:
As always. And until next time, be well, do good and make your bed.
