James Robert:
Greetings and hello, I am James Robert Lay, and welcome to Episode to seventy eight of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast. Today's episode is part of the Exponential Insight series And I'm excited to welcome Dave Fink to the show. Dave is the C, O and co founder of Post Data and Technology platform, with the mission of making Direct Mel behave as dynamically as the best digital marketing channel, Dave believes that the best kept secret and marketing is hiding where you least expected your mail box. Over our twenty year career, Dave has generated hundreds of millions of dollars in add revenue powered viral sensations like Dollar Shave Club will also helping launch celebrity start ups for Jessica Simpson, Mary, Kate Olson and Kate Bosworth, and now, as a founder of posting, he's out to re, invent direct mail marketing for a digital world, which is exactly what we're going to discuss today to him. Power you to help you grow your bank, your credit union or your Fin tech. welcome to the show, Dave. it is good to share time with you today, Buddy,
Dave Fink:
Thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this one.
James Robert:
Before we get into talking about the potential growth opportunities through Direct Mell and really combining Direct Mel and digital together for financial brands. What is good for you right now, personally or professionally? There's always your pick to get started On a positive note.
Dave Fink:
I love that question. You know, I think you know. For entrepreneurs, executives, et cetera, We spent so much of our time thinking about. You know the problems we need to solve, and and you know, not enough time thinking about either the problems we've already solved or you know what we've achieved and what's going well. Typically our teams kind of get to focus on the positive and then we're always you know, trouble hooting, So I love, kind of switching into that positive frame of mind, Look in. In the grand scheme of things you know, were two and a half years removed from this crazy Covid time, my, my son and daughter, telling me all the time that the the greatest thing that happened with Covid is that they got to start spending time with me in a daily basis because I was working from home and we continue to remain distributed. So I see my kids every morning and every night. whereas when I was going into an office every day often times I didn't. That's just been a huge thing, World of positivity for me, Reminder of why I get up and work so hard every day In in work. I think that we're in a in a place where there's so much concern and fear place you know, in kind of what's going on in the macro economic trends And I look at those and I actually think that that's It's just filled with opportunity. We talk about that now day and day out here at post. I think, when you know when things get Bit tougher, it puts pressure on us, as you know as companies, a service providers, etcetera to to better, and to be really thoughtful about how we're spending our time, how we're communicating, And and you know when things are really frothy, You know, anyone can can sell a product of service, et cetera moneys flowing. It's easy. Now buyers are less discerning and the decision making, Nd. And so I just think that I Like this market in many ways better than when everything is perfect and it's masking all sorts of you know hair So lot to be positive about. I think these days
James Robert:
You break up a very good point to roll your thinking back just a bit. It's easy as a leader as an executive to get stuck and to forget all of the good that we have done as an individual as a team as an organization, And I think you know when you think about when things are frothy like they are right now, and there's a little bit of uncertainty. We must be mindful of where we're at, so that we don't get stuck In a dark place. Why is that? why do you think you know? as a leader it's easy to forget all the progress that we've made and just get kind of stuck right here in the present moment.
Dave Fink:
Well if I knew that answer, I'd probably be you know, a motivational speaker, a therapist or something like that. I mean these are. these are things that I struggle with myself and I think there's no shortage of of information out there about the type of challenging personalities that are drawn to entrepreneurship, and the lows are really low, and the high are really high,
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
and sometimes the short intervals in between is they're long. I bow Well, I think certainly, for the last decade been very open talking about, especially with my executive team and my co founder talking about. Hey, I can just tell I can that the neuro transmitters you firing in a funky way. I think I'm gonna have a couple of rough days here. Just be aware,
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
and and then their times. I just label it and say like I'm totally manic right now Like you know. Maybe not you know diagnose is such, but but I can feel I'm up. You know, the dope means flowing. I'm goin
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
A million ideas. Half them are going to be disastrous, but it's like like this is a really creative time right now.
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
I think you know Why do we get focused on on the negative sometimes over the positive I think is probably because it's just you know, anxiety, depression, stress, like those are really heavy emotions. It's really hard to you know to ignore them and sometimes you know it's nothing more than again. The way that you have your Brand, you know working. it's not even driven by anything real. You know again, I believe labeling can be, you know, and understanding yourself can be a really powerful thing. The minute that you kind of try and spend a little time defining what's going on what you're feeling, what you're dealing with what you're challenges. I think all of a sudden it makes it a bit more obtainable to overcome and conquer. And but it doesn't you. It doesn't eliminate the fact that you're feeling That that pressure of anxiety, that stress and people who get themselves in I think positions where they care a lot about results and their productivity who want to do well, which I think to find most people. I just think that that those kind of fears and uncertainties are oftentimes more heavy than then, the achievements and and look, surrounding yourself with people that care about you, and creating a culture of more positivity and recognition Goes a long way to try to focus more attention on. Hey, look at all the amazing things we're doing. Yes, there are some challenges that we have that we need to spend some time now focusing on. But let's figure out how do we do more of what's working, and and focus less on the things that aren't working. I don't have a great answer. I'm just aware of it.
James Robert:
I think that is a great answer and I think it comes down to the point of what you just said. I'm aware, and it's that idea of awareness of of the self of the team of the organization. It's that awareness that provides perspective into where we've been where we are and then where we can continue to grow, going forward into the future, and from the point of awareness you know we know that financial services has become commoditized. every bank, every credit union, It's around pretty much the same exact things. we have these commodities, Great rates, we have quota quote, amazing service, and then we have these these look alike, laundry list of product features, And I think the good news is that you have seen you've experienced. You've learned a lot on your own journey of growth, especially when it comes to rising above commoditization and winning the battle for attention. And I want to start there. like, think back, lessons Learned here, awareness, the work that you have done over the years, For example, with Dollar Shave Club, what might be some practical insights? practical lessons that the dear listener can apply at their bank, their credit or their fintech,
Dave Fink:
Uh, yeah, fantastic question. And and I just like you know, we talked about it. I think some level of introspection into yourself. And and what makes you know you take as a as a person? You know you need to do the same thing in your business in your companies and they're living and breathing things. They're made up of people and products and services and stories and experiences, And I think that One of the core transformations in my caree was was in the early days. I was obsessed with the quantitative. You know, I grew up, you up in, you know, my professional world, and in the age of the Internet, where you know, we were moving to this world of direct measurement and data and insights and analytics, especially in the marketing world where you know you could bring a product to market and you could work on a address able strategy, And you have more than ever before You could actually Or get you get enough data to understand is what you're testing, you know, and putting out their working or not working to achieve certain business goals That led me kind of down this path of kind of micro testing, optimization. things like you know, single words and copy and font colors and the color of a of a call to action or a button on a web site or landing page, or the frequency of emails and all that stuff is really important, but I think for a while, maybe even had a little bit of arrogance of you. Give me any product of service and I'm going to run through a series of you know fifty you best practices and we're going, T you know, Wrote all these optimizations and built a profitable demand engine. and and fast forward to you, mentioned the experience that's fortunate enough to have having a front receipt to the kind of the dollar Shave Club story that was in about a little over a decade into my career Is two thousand Eleven when Dollar Shaped Club launched and it launched a time of the Really, the emergence and scale of social media. Right you tube, Just building their own algorithms and Facebook was just becoming, You know it was. It was a place where everybody was sharing you, content and images and photos of their family and their best ski vacation. things like that, but didn't have the algorithm, and the Adds platform wasn't the behement that we know it is today. And and so it was an opportunity. Kind of embrace this idea, not just of the quantitative, but also of story telling and authenticity
Dave Fink:
and consumer engagement Through content and through a real brand story. And so Mike Duben, who you know many people now know, was the founder of Dollar Shape Club. The idea behind it, He was the star, handsome star of the video. He scripted and directed the video. That that kind of put them on the scene, and he in his co post, even when they got really big, Leading up to that that billion dollar acquisition by you know lever, you know, he had his hand in every piece of content because he believed and saw the power of story.
Dave Fink:
And and what that did is all of a sudden, it just like kind of exploded my mind into realizing that now you can make incremental games through all of the just pure quantitative testing and optimization. But if you start with an authentic voice, a cohesive brand story, a commitment to telling that story consistently to your your I, C, P, your core prospect customers, and your existing customers, Then you know when you start layering on the quantitative strategies on top of it and executional tactics on top of it, that's when the magic happens, And so when you talk about a commodity in, you know, in a banking product, you know. Sure, you know, we can all throw our hands up in the air and say like you know, it's a commoditized industry, but it's also one of the biggest industries in the history of the world. It touches everyone every single day, whether that's through a credit card transaction or Dig payment or a digital purchase and retailor. And and so I think that when you think about something that's as as ubiquitous as kind of financial instruments, there's a lot of room for story telling and there's a lot of room for differentiating yourself based on the values of your company. How you think about the world, how you think about the future, So I just I can't shy away enough from, you know the combination of the quantitative and optimization which can benefit you Now. two products that look the same when put on top of a clear unique brand story.
James Robert:
I'm going to pause you here because you have a very interesting perspective that I think many of the listeners can connect with if I think about the the financial brand leader, very smart, very analytical, very logical, quantitative numbers. but you're now overlaying that with more of the motive, piece of story of narrative, And I find, and I wrote about this in my book Banking on digital Growth That in the banker's brain there's a lot of conflict because the way that the financial brand leader sees the world is different, say than how a consumer sees the world more a motive driven, making a motive purchase decisions. How did did you transform? Maybe your own mind set or perspective to go beyond just thinking about the numbers, and when you think about things like Landing page optimization, Cro, conversion rate optimization, email, sins, et Cetera, What was that journey like for you to think beyond the numbers and also now bring more of the story in the narrative into your world view, And how did you do that?
Dave Fink:
Look, it was really simple. I got hit on top of the head with you know success story. It was Now it was the Dollars shaped club initial viral video that was really well scripted to tell a mission, you know, based story, to try and sell the ultimate commodity raiser
Dave Fink:
blades right through through you know the internet. Um, and watching the consumer response, everybody wanted to be a part of it. They didn't even care about the quality of the product Like it happened to be that the quality you know was competitive. But it was you. They everybody had felt this pain point of going through. Check out at Target and you know, And it's three items and it's a hundred and ten dollars. You're like What in the world did I buy? And you bought eight razor blades right, And and then you know, going to c, v, s, or or, or wall greens, and you have to ask someone to unlock the the you know razor blade cabinet Because it's the number one most stolen the item in, you know in retail because it's over priced. And And and that that became like the brand story behind. Like, Are you tired of this? You know, this giant and Gilet who owns eighty percent of the market you know. taking advantage of you. you know, because they can, And and so you now we watch that. and literally the video launched may get these days wrong, but I think it was like a Friday night and within Three hours the site was crashed.
Dave Fink:
They couldn't transact orders. There was so much response to that that you launch story, that authentic voice that I mean, we worked out. we brought every engineer in the building in to to get the site restored, and then we had to rapidly go out and hire a really big customer, you know, success team in order to be able to help fulfill and communicate with clients that were like, Hey, way more demand than we expected on What us hear, and you know, Fast forward four years later, you know four million paid subscribers to buy razor blades through the Internet. not because
Dave Fink:
the razor blades were ten times better or that they couldn't get him else where you can get razor blades. you know, every ten feet you know, in any major city, it was because you. that story resonated with authenticity in a humor. you know, driven way it was. That's all it took. It was just like, Oh my God, There's something here.
James Robert:
As you're talking through this, this narrative I'm even thinking about whenever I first saw that video and the key take away for the dear listener. You know, you know, thinking about just your bank. Your credit in your Fin Tech is identifying the patterns, common patterns that cause common people pain, they cause common people problems, and then presenting crafting a narrative, a story, a solution that resolve those pains, Resolve those problems, and that that takes a bit of a transformation of just perspective, and we're thinking about transformation. I think you know the perspective that that you're bringing through the work that you're doing now Is you believe that the mell box is the new in box and that's a big shift in thinking. For some, I think, as we're now entering this age of a chat, G, P. T has been in the media recently And I'm curious. why. Why is this? Why do you believe that the mell box is the deed box?
Dave Fink:
There's a really organic path that we took to get here. And and it started back in nineteen ninety nine, When when I first, maybe it's two thousand, took my first kind of quantitative marketing job or no job, with a quantitive marketing platform in the Internet, And we saw this just this transformation of movement from traditional media like T V Radio, Direct mail out of home newspaper magazine, et cetera Into digital format, happens little by little slowly by slowly people had to get educated. We had to build better tools and technology better data pipes. Just educate ourselves as marketers Um, and we learned that that, whether it doesn't matter where your distribution channels are, whether you're selling through retail, whether you're selling directly to the consumer, whether you're selling through a middle person, You know, If you It ud be more in control. You have to have a direct line of communication to and from the consumer. There's all sorts of insights and data that capture on whether you're doing a good job with your product or service or communication, and you can work to control that story versus relying in other third parties. Like hoping that a retailers know educating the consumer about your product. So you know, then as we talked about there was you know. this rise of just you might In social media and programmatic media and email, and the movement was, how do we move away from traditional media into these digital channels, And we learned a ton about storytelling through social media, quantitative through programmatic and building, look like models, and a lot of things that the financial services industry had been doing through direct mail for years and years that could now be applied to digital. It was oftentimes cheaper on a per impression basis, not always more effective but But less expensive. And and then all of a sudden, you know, Er, re advertisers marking budget went into Facebook and Google, and you hear numbers like eighty five cents of every dollar of of digital media goes to Google and Facebook. For things like forty cents on every dollar of of venture or investment indirectly goes through their portfolio assets into Facebook. I mean, those are crazy dominant numbers and we're all always kind of struggling with. Hey, these are Channels that give us a lot of power and distribution, but they get more and more expensive with time and it's harder and harder
James Robert:
Right,
Dave Fink:
to build our entire gross strategy profitably on those few channels So fast forward to about six. seven years ago we saw that across a portfolio consumer brands and we looked and said Hey, something as got to give. Like we can't just keep spending more to acquire each customer, oftentimes a less qualified customer, Because just ad rates are going up on the these digital platforms, but we don't want to give up our ability to speak directly To the consumer, control our message, and then test and optimize through audiences, and all the addressable marketing strategies that digital allows us to do from a technology perspective, So we just look and said, What are the other channels that we could apply kind of all that goodness to that are not facebook and Google. And that brought us back to direct mail and direct me. It's a fifty billion dollar year industry here in the U S alone, greatly dominated by financial services and Fin X, and had part of that is because the financial services category has access to unique data through the credit bureaus that are required in order to make
Dave Fink:
lending decisions, and that's a huge advantage to be able to use that data to make decisions who you're going to market to and how you're going to market. And then they obviously have to play in a regular regulated industry. And and so we look into direct mail. It has a deep targeting Anything on line. Has it has direct measurement, has a very can intimate way of of connecting with a consumer right, a tangible piece of media that can be well design, reenforcing your brand story that's engaged in real life in the a consumer's home or prospects home. and those are amazing things. You know what what we weren't thrilled about was that there had been no real technology and innovation and how you execute how you measure how you leverage data. And you know for twenty years digital had you relied on thin air, innovated in things like machine learning and A, and execution and data and insights, data visualization layers. And so we just thought like, Hey, like you know, you know, maybe we can build a bit more value in this, you know, already, big channel That that has proven to be performant when executed. Right if we bring the same tool technology you know, and tools to this channel as we're used to from face, Can search an email,
James Robert:
Right.
Dave Fink:
and s and es, et cetera When you put that together, and we see day and day, because everything we do is measurable channel. Our performs just about any other quantitative channel out there. Higher quality customers. you know better, Pas, better return at pens. big and scalable reaches any anyone you know that has a physical address in the entire Us. It's a really, really powerful and effective channel. So were also started with a bunch of hypotheses and how to break away from a soul dependence on digital. and it resulted in a holy call. This channel is extraordinarily. Performance can be done better.
James Robert:
I'm curious to get your take on this because you know it's almost like what is old is new again. We've come full cycle back to this, this other type of communication channel. And you know I know some might think that Direct me. That's that's a Diana sore. Why are we even having this conversation? so I want to pause just a bit. What is a common misconception or a misunderstanding that people might have Around? Direct me that you would disagree with that. you know what. Based upon what we know, let me give you another another thing to think about here when it comes to direct me in a digital world.
Dave Fink:
So I think there are three buckets of misconceptions that I would. I would focus on. Um, you know, one is that the direct mail is this analogue channel That may be important, but should be, you know, executed in Son Silo, and that's a total mess right. I
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
mean, that's not how we should behave as brands, companies, et Cetera We should be thinking about integrating Um, every opportunity to engage A customer prospect, Re engage lap, customer etcetera holistically. it doesn't matter whether it's a piece of paper, a bill board, T v, spot news feed, a
James Robert:
integrated marketing communications.
Dave Fink:
it has to be.
James Robert:
Yep,
Dave Fink:
it has to be integrated, and that's the beauty of a quantity of quantitative media dress, able media Is that the same individual that you're reaching through a mail box is the same individual you're reaching through your website and then retargeting them through digital ad. And that's in your email, Carman, that You can you know, reach through address able, T V, or even linear t, V. Like
James Robert:
Yeah,
Dave Fink:
like that needs to be brought together in order to get maximum efficiency, So that that's I think, misconception one. and and that's just kind of a legacy. and in some more traditional marketing teams
James Robert:
Sure.
Dave Fink:
that that we've been helping close the gap on to is that it's expensive and that's often because the first thing maybe that a marker is doing is saying like Well, Cost to reach individual through a piece of direct mail is way more expensive than the cost to reach them through news fee. Add. But the real cost is what is your return and Aspen T's.
James Robert:
Yep.
Dave Fink:
You know, what is the expected and then actual achieved conversion rate? What is the quality and lifetime value of that individual that you're converting, And so you know the way to to. I think equalize evaluation of any channel is not what's the cost of impression, But it's you know. if I spend, you know, fifty thousand dollars This channel and I spend fifty thousand dollars in this channel. What is the comparable return? And how do they work in the inter active way And when when you look at the return, Direct mail oftentimes is the more efficient channel compared to other addressable specially, digital channels. Um, I think that that three would be. you know. Exceptionally, you know know, Historically have been a really clunky channel. You need procurement people. you need data and listen, and you, D B, as you needed, you know all sorts of kind of individuals to work with a whole sea of vendors, you had to kind of out source all of your audience development technology like Post you know has changed that, so You know, Just like Facebook can be run with individual or very small team and tremendous games can be had. They can be managing really big budgets delivering really big results. You. our clients are leveraging technology to execute direct mail in the same way, Sometimes a paradigm shift, But this this idea that, Oh my gosh, this is gonna take you know ten people to execute. That's no longer the case. And so you know, I think you Those three things together and it mystifies it a bit similar to how many of your listeners are working every day to figure out how to take complex financial instruments and mystify them for the prospect consumer. make it attainable.
James Robert:
Well, let's let's let's continue to demystify this together, because I see there are really three opportunities here when it comes to direct Mel as a growth opportunity for financial brands in a digital world. You, you have prospecting, you have retargeting, You have. See our re engagement. I want to. I want to focus on the retargeting, and specifically website re targeting because I see one of the greatest challenges for financial brands is essentially what we hold. diagnose. Abandon shopping cart, Someone gets to the bottom of the funnel, They click the apply button, they start the application, and then because of complexity of the application they abandoned, they leave. Now we know, for example, like with marketing automation, re engagement, we can recapture anywhere between ten to fifteen, twenty five percent of those that start the application, But abandon, I want to get your take on where direct Mel can can play a part of this narrative because I see it Opportunity here, because it is very specific. It is very targeted around the abandoned cart, even post purchase, I mean, at all, kind of becomes now integrated back to the point we were making before. What are some specific opportunities from your perspective here?
Dave Fink:
So I would think about it just a bit more broadly and thinking, think about it in such in such terms as how do you? How do you become more insightful and knowledgeable about your customers and your prospects, And how do you leverage that knowledge in order to be more efficient with with your marketing budget?
Dave Fink:
And what I mean by that is you know. Here's you know a little story now, So I learned kind of Art of sales and enclosing Um, shopping for guitars. when I was in junior high. That was one of my first like passion hobbies. Was was was music and I grew up in a summer Chicago, and every once in a while I would go and would, I would get a job as like a thirteen and fourteen year old, and worked for like six months to save it up enough money to go and buy a guitar, and I did this in like annual cycles, and then I would quit the job and I would hop on a train or hop in a car with My dad and drive down to Guitar Center.
James Robert:
Yep,
Dave Fink:
A guitar center back in the day was known for haggling,
James Robert:
Yep,
Dave Fink:
Nd. I vividly remember being a young kid engaging with someone probably a decade older than me about a guitar that I was trying to buy. And and and I remember there was another local guitar store down the street and in this neighborhood in Chicago and I would, I walked out of the store guitar center to walk down the street to see you know what price they had Or what similar instruments they had, and the the sales person chased me down the street. I was like All right, All right, I'll
James Robert:
Uh,
Dave Fink:
knock fifty bucks off. And and I was like a light bale Like Okay, Like playing hard to get You know. not you know, being over Conover connected and showing too much Besier. Having you know alternatives like all these things as a buyer are really good. I bring that up because I gave some signal to the sales person that that sales One could then leverage to figure out what it was going to take to close me, and when you fast forward to twenty twenty three, you know one of the greatest values of being in the digital age is that we have the ability to engage with consumers and prospects through our websites and apps, and and learn how they're You know, engaging with us what content
James Robert:
Right,
Dave Fink:
they're They're engaging with what videos they're watching an entirety. Versus, abandoning what adds Content that are in our distribution network that there that are driving them what emails they're opening. You know what s M. s is they're responding to, And then we could leverage that data to make better decisions about. Okay, Like this message is being impactful. let's figure out how to leverage more of it or you know, here's a pain point that we didn't even realize that that a big segment of our our customers have, or here's a, here's an area where failing existing customers and they're abandoning us. And then we can That in order to do a better job, communicate, you know back. I remember shopping with my mom at Towards some shoe department, and as a kid, and they used to have her her number on file, and they would
James Robert:
Yeah,
Dave Fink:
call her when a new shoe that she knew showed up and they had a personal relationship. We get to do that through the internet through our
James Robert:
Yes,
Dave Fink:
data bases. Right And so then you start thinking about. Okay, How can we use that that information insight? Call it data tactically and you nailed it right. So Where in our sales funnel? are we losing people?
James Robert:
Hm,
Dave Fink:
Why are we losing people there? How should we just re market to them through Direct Malin, Digital? Or should we be thinking about? what is the message that E're missing the gap that we're not. You know, you know feeling to get someone to feel comfortable to go all the way through the conversion event. And then how do we communicate that through all of the channels available? But Direct Mal, being a really powerful weighted one, Is that Now be used in Re marketing Like a hundred percent. I take
James Robert:
Yeah,
Dave Fink:
advantage of it.
James Robert:
and I think you know, one of the kind of present moment challenges is the, “battle for deposits.” For the last decade. It was all about the loans, the loan products. Now it's deposit focus and practical use Case for the dear listener, coming back to the point of retargeting and remarketing is looking at people who might be on a checking page. They might be on a savings vehicle, Sty, money market account, Then utilizing multi channel marketing to then go back and re Engage, And your Norsstram example is one that's that's taking a pro active stance in a relationship. Your guitar center example really connected with me because a little bit of a side anecdote on this I remember being like eighteen nineteen. I had a punk rock band and
Dave Fink:
Nice.
James Robert:
I bought a guitar and realized that I probably spent an. I was like. No, I didn't buy the guitar. It was a cat About a cab and and an amp. and I was. I probably spent more than I should have, and I had buyers remorse
Dave Fink:
Uh, huh,
James Robert:
and they had a policy. You could take it back and return it and I did because I was like. I just no way that I can afford a bout it on credit and everything store credit. So I took it back, but they were like Dude, Don't worry about it. We're going to give you a job. You could pay it off. You can buy other stuff And it was like they were so pro active in the relationship And I think that's the key take away is Joe, Rect. Mel can be part of a pro active relationship to where you're providing an offer. an incentive tied back to an individual's unique situation based upon their digital buying signal. So it doesn't just have to be digital alone. It can be multi channel or back to the point were talking about before integrated as a whole. As we start to wrap up, I always like to get real practical towards the end. D, for the dear listener, something small that they can do next to apply what we've been talking here, talking about here within their own unique situation. What? what would be one thing that you would recommend the listener do today at their bank, at their credit at their Fin text to integrate, or maybe even re, integrate Direct Mel as part of a key communication channel To establish Re. engage. Take, take a positive pro active stance in people's financial lives, so that it is not this Diana source, so that it is not this stand alone channel off in the corner that we have these misconceptions from the past,
Dave Fink:
So I would say book ended,
Dave Fink:
And what I mean by that is, I would say You know, engage with your marketing team and ask questions about the areas where you're finding the most challenge and where you need the most help. Whether that's retaining customers, where that's cross selling a specific higher margin product, Whether that's cracking new acquisition in a in a specific demographic or segment, That's that you know that you really want to crack, but you're struggling with Um, And then also take a look Where are the areas that we're being. We're successful, which gets back to how we started this conversation, which is a lot of times as people, but also marketers. We focus on the areas that are most difficult and we shouldn't give up on those, but we should also not forget that he, sometimes the path the biggest growth and profitability is leaning in where you're actually finding success, not just solving the problems. Excuse me, and I would look at Um at both of those and figure out how can we integrate direct male The positive to try engagement and incremental gains in the areas that are already working. Let's not just sit back on our laurels, and then let's take a look and say Hey, where can we use another data driven high touch, high engagement, More personalized, you know, consumer touch point to try and break through a challenge position. And and I think you can do that in all three areas of the funnel that you talked about, which is direct mails. Is highly effective in top of funnel acquisition. Because of all the predicted modeling, the A I, the data, the look of like modeling that you can do. I would look deep in the funnel and say, how do we upset Cross cell? How do we re engaged Last customers? and then I wud look mid funnel To how do we unlock things like you know, retargeting re-marketing through all the first party behavioral data were capturing and insights we're capturing. I would hope I know most of your brands are have a lead funnel and Direct meal can be integrated Into your lead conversion campaigns. But I would look at each one of those those buckets. What are we doing Well that we want to accelerate? What? where are we struggling? That may be integrating this Chan a little bit more deeply, or bringing it into the mix. and when we're not using it at all In these now these marketing objectives could be worth a go as well,
James Robert:
I like your perspective, identifying things that were already doing good and making hypothesis of what we could do even better. What could we optimized to grow from good to great and experimentation, I think goes a long way here. It's back to once again what you were talking about before. Yes, there's the quantitative piece of this, but it's also the larger narrative that we're crafting through out each one of these, and I think too, when it comes to Findanc, All services and specifically for the near listener, start small with this. Don't try to buy the entire funnel off at one time, back to the point of awareness, consideration and purchase, but then also focusing on one specific product line, Because that's where I think the complexity quickly creeps in. It's like Oh my gosh, we have five different product lines that we're trying to focus on three different areas of the funnel. That's an exponential problem. Let's bring this back and let Just start small. Look for those areas of opportunities to grow from good to great, Dave. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for your knowledge, for your insight that you have shared. If someone is listening to this and they want to connect with you to continue the conversation that we have started. What's the best way for them to reach out and say hello to you? Dave.
Dave Fink:
So we work hard on publishing great content in studies, insights on our website, So certainly post dot com, P, o, s t, I e dot com. If if it's some one that wants to connect directly with me, linked in linked in Messenger, Messenger is my platform of choice and Dave think is my handle. Certainly, Dave. If you search for Dave tanking post, you'll find me as well. Love, Hear from you.
James Robert:
Connect with Dave. Learn with Dave. Grow with Dave, Dave. I was just checking out all of the resource that you have on your website under Learn there are a tone, so I do recommend the dear listener hop over to post p. o, s t, I e dot com. Take a look at those resources and it will continue to guide you forward on your own journey of growth, Dave. thanks for joining before another episode of Banking on digital growth. This has been a lot of fun today
Dave Fink:
My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
James Robert:
As always, and until next time be well, do good and make your bed.
